Your exhibition focuses on shamanism and mythological elements. These are very ancient narratives. In your opinion, how do these ancient narratives continue to exist in our time, albeit in a transformed form? What questions about today's world are behind your creation of sculptures around this theme?
Today, the fundamental conflict is considered to be labor-capital. I believe there is another major conflict beyond this; that is the relationship between humanity and nature. The human-nature relationship has been disrupted, and we are currently busy destroying our own nature. With the development of technology and science, humanity has begun to approach nature with an arrogance that makes it seem superior. While we are drilling through mountains, flying planes, and trying to go to space, we are disrupting the balance of nature and we don't even care. At one end of this is the situation in the latest stage of monopoly capitalism, that is, the greed for more profit, more production, and more competition. Competition brings both unemployment and environmental pollution. The cheaper we produce it, the better things become. While all this is happening, nature is completely disregarded.
Therefore, whether we establish socialism or capitalism, it doesn't matter. We need to solve this problem first. I think we've forgotten that we are also a part of nature. That's why humans have such a brutal approach to nature. Unbelievable! It's heartbreaking, actually, what humans do. That's why I'm trying to bring these archaic myths into the present day; as examples. The worldviews, lifestyles, and beliefs of shamans are becoming so important in our current world. What do they say, for example? They say everything has a soul. This is a very foreign concept to us. The worm has a soul, the air has a soul, the water has a soul. We are very unfamiliar with these concepts. I'm trying to explain this matter of souls. Everything has a soul, and we are equal. Everyone and everything has the right to life. We are one of them, so there's nothing to exaggerate about. I want to draw attention to this.
When I say "it has a soul"... It means everything is precious, you shouldn't destroy it, you shouldn't harm it, you shouldn't disrupt the balance. If you do, you'll get sick. Shamans say that, for example. When someone comes to them sick, during the examination they say: "I think you cut down a tree today." And the other person says "yes" hesitantly. They attribute the causes of illness to various things. Or when digging a house foundation, the earthworms in the soil are collected and taken elsewhere before the foundation is dug. This is a sign of respect. We need to show this respect to water, soil, trees...
You're saying that people who want to establish equality in life must first achieve it in nature. The shamanic image symbolizes this to some extent.
Bravo! And without this equality, everything else becomes a false equality. Instead of establishing equality, they kill every living thing they come across. We throw incredible poisons to protect apples, killing many living creatures around them, driving away bees, and we don't even realize it. In other words, we disrupt the life cycle. I think this is a very important issue. That's why I've been delving into these topics for the last fifteen years.
Yes, I've noticed that you produce work around these themes because I follow you. The nature-human relationship occupies a very important place in your work. I'd like to ask a question here: this system, where capitalism brands and sells everything, also transforms myths and the shamanic image into folkloric elements, stripping them of their meaning and marketing them. In your work, however, there are no forms that have been detached from their meaning. While the dominant ideology markets the same images, how do you overcome this danger in your own work?
Everything is about the content-form relationship. I take ownership of the content and problematize how that content, that essence, can be conveyed in the language of form. My problem is the content-form relationship. That is, finding a language of form that is appropriate to that content, that can enrich it, that can tell people about it. Because I try to find this language without deviating from the content, I do find it.
I believe that character, personality, everything comes from this relationship. Because I have a worldview, and I give form according to my worldview. Of course, I also make an interpretation. A sculpture without interpretation is not art; if it is, it is without personality. If you can say, "This is how it is for me," you will say it. And you will be like yourself, not like someone else. In art, "it's unique, it's like me." I have adopted this as my motto. That's why I don't look left or right; I look at how I can transform this content into form in the most beautiful, most artistic way. Because this is my concern, decent things can emerge.
But on the other hand, there is a capitalist world, an imperialist culture, that is destroying the entire art world. There's no respect left for art, painting, or sculpture. Leaving aside nature, there's no respect for art either. The content of art has been emptied, dehumanized. Humanity has been banished from art. Now, if you create works with human themes, you're immediately ostracized, you're not accepted into exhibitions. You can't say a word, you can't shout slogans, you can't offer commentary, you can't take a stand. This is the imperialist culture's understanding of art: You can make jokes, you can make people laugh, you can do funny things, you can create surprises; then it becomes art. Surprise, but surprise in whatever way you can. Do something unbelievable, for example, bring a hideous sculpture to the exhibition space by helicopter, then it's over.
--Based on what you've said, that is, the relationship between content and form, I want to ask you. Your search for form has begun to incorporate different things, especially as technology has advanced. There are three-dimensional modeling and printing techniques, along with more traditional materials like metal and stone. You use these together. How have these new techniques, with the advancement of technology, transformed your sculpture practice? Could you explain the relationship between technology and your art a little?
Technology should be the artist's extended arm. But this is a tool whose brain must remain the same. Your thoughts, your interpretations, your worldview shouldn't change with technology; in other words, technology shouldn't take control of you. That's the most important thing. This might be frightening, but if you master technology and use it for your own benefit, there's no problem. For example, when I work with stone using a hammer and chisel, I'm not sculpting tons of mass, but I don't abandon the hammer and chisel either. But if I can cut a stone in two seconds with wire cutters, why not? I've already drawn it, designed it.
In this respect, Michelangelo always comes to mind. I think about what this man could have done if he had wire cutters, spirals, and grinding tools... How many more sculptures he could have made. I feel sad about it. He goes in with a hammer and chisel, all the way to the end. Do you know what "all the way to the end" means? Those who understand this work will know. Let's say you see a mass in front of you, a square stone. Let's say it weighs 10 tons. You're going to reduce it to 3 tons. Look, now the stone is reduced to 3 tons. Especially if you think about Michelangelo's David... I mean, a 150-200 ton stone arrives, and it takes 3 years just to get there. They even fail at one attempt, and bring it back again. So much time is spent that you change during that time; your perspectives can change, everything happens over time. In short, technology should be our extended arm, ear, and eye. If it exists, it should be ours, but it shouldn't corrupt our character, our artistic personality. We shouldn't take the easy way out and create nonsense by only using the possibilities of technology without considering the content-form relationship. Being yourself is important.
-- • I want to ask about being yourself. You just said that they expelled people from art. Your works also focus on people, and those of your works in the public sphere have been attacked by the authorities. However, despite everything, you insisted on being yourself. Those who suffered even a fraction of the attacks you faced left the country, but you insisted on staying. What is your connection to this country? Why is staying in the country important? The AKP doesn't make artists' jobs easier, after all.
On the contrary, it makes them harder. Do you know why staying in the country is important? This country truly belongs to us, and the governments, parties, and powers that come and go are all temporary. This country is ours! Ultimately, what are we working for? We are working for the good, for the beautiful. We are working for the people and for the truth to be seen. This is also a measure of sculpting, of being an artist. To lift the veils covering the truth one by one and show the naked truth. And while doing this, you can use all kinds of things. You can use metaphors, your compositions will be accordingly. You can use all artistic elements, you should use them.
For example, you can't confuse sculpture with graphic art or caricature. In graphic art, everything is intended to be understood at first glance, but sculpture is different. You'll understand something at first glance, but that subject will deepen. Can you take the viewer into the depths of that subject? That's when the work begins. Can you make them think? If you can make them think, you've done something important. They perceive your thought in their own way and interpret and understand it accordingly. What does this mean? It means that art is actually very meaningful. The meaning you give it enriches itself and is interpreted. Since every person will interpret art according to their own knowledge, culture, and perspective, polysemy begins. To capture this polysemy, there needs to be mystery in the artwork, which is why one-to-one representation isn't good.
For example, today they make a lot of sculptures with a hyperrealistic approach. What's the aim there? Deception, that is, "as if," as if the person is sitting there. You'll even go and touch it, and you'll see it's a sculpture, not a person. This is now a deception. This is the art understanding of imperialist culture. It doesn't say anything to the person. The important thing is that it looks like a human being. According to him, it's colored, dressed, even the eyelashes and eyebrows are done. What the artist values there is exact replica, being able to make it exactly the same. This isn't an artistic concern. Even in naturalism, these things don't exist. The artist still adds something of themselves in the composition and color. There's nothing like that here; it's exactly as it appears.
Unfortunately, these are the things we see in all our art schools and biennials. These are examples of the expulsion of humanity from art. They are against sculpture. They say that making sculptures is unnecessary, painting isn't important, even talent isn't necessary, thinking is enough. But everyone thinks anyway; it would be interesting if every thinking person were an artist.
Years ago, in an interview, you described your relationship with sculpture as an almost existential passion, and art production as a field of reckoning. What you said made me think that perhaps artists today are avoiding that reckoning. Instead of trying to exist with passion and confronting it, they are "pretending," don't you think so?
Of course. They are avoiding the reckoning, and they are also taking the easy way out. They're trying to create paintings and sculptures without knowing how to draw. Because that's the method they're being offered. Theorists are relentlessly pushing; magazines, books, exhibitions… Incredible amounts of money are being spent to brainwash them. Schools, teachers in schools, popular types… These people have nothing to do with artistry. If they know a certain trick, can make jokes, then they're called artists. But sculpture! They don't know serious sculpture. I say to myself: I'm probably the last "sculpture bender."
I also do my work to set an example. I hold sculpture exhibitions, so you can go and see them; that's what a sculpture exhibition should be like. Because young people's minds are so confused, they've distanced themselves so much from sculpture… They have no knowledge of aesthetics, of plasticity anymore, they don't know. They don't know when two forms come together to create a sculpture. They don't know how mass can be effective within space. They don't even know about materials. These things aren't taught in schools anymore.
For example, they make a Zeus out of styrofoam, or a statue of Apollo or David. But then they add glasses or headphones. There you have it, modern sculpture. Wow! Was it that cheap? And they're trying to connect the past to the future. It's not that small. It's not that simple. They're making themselves look ridiculous without even realizing it. You just laugh when you watch it.
As you said, in schools, young people are channeled in a certain direction, and pressure is exerted on them through various means regarding how contemporary art should be. In such an environment, what should young artists do? What would you suggest, both for their artistic journey and for making art in this country?
First of all, they should embark on a journey of self-discovery. Talented children who have dabbled in sculpture need to know this: there aren't major leaps in art, there are periods. These periods are related to the developing world. For example, if there's a transition from feudalism to capitalism, there's always an artistic counterpart. Artists are part of this process. And this is always the case. Follow the history of world art since slave societies; it has developed in this way. Capitalism and imperialism have also had an impact, but there's always a dominant class that has an understanding of art, and they try to direct art creation according to that understanding. Therefore, there's no interpretation, no slogans, no humanity, no humanistic expressions. You'll touch on something, but it will be empty. You won't go to the bottom. They insist on a shift in content.
That's why young artists should come from the past to the present. The past shouldn't be denied. You can't deny Egyptian art. Or Assyrian or Hittite art… You shouldn't deny Indian, African, Chinese, or South American art; you should master them. You will find your way in this world of forms if you want to be a sculptor. You will follow these and bring them to the present day. Today, there's incredible technology, an incredible lifestyle has emerged. Traffic, cars, airplanes, cell phones… Everything has become closer, but at the same time, it has moved away from that human essence. The artist must be aware of this and express it. They must find the form language of our time.
For example, I love Michelangelo very much, I love every stroke of his work, but I don't sculpt like him. I sculpt in a similar way: we are the same in terms of content and form. He also interprets the content in his own way. Think of the 1500s; in those years, he could transform Jesus and all those sacred figures into the normal types you see here and there. This is a very important thing, for example, he did this. He even almost dressed himself up as an apostle. So, everything started to become familiar faces. This was very important for Michelangelo.
Today, we cannot present art and its subjects to people in a very abstract way, without giving any clues. We know the cultural level of people. How many people in Turkey today have a culture of sculpture? Very few, not even 1%. Because they haven't encountered sculpture, they haven't experienced it, there were no sculptures in their childhood. They haven't seen proper sculptures in a park. They grew up with Atatürk statues, which we can't even call sculptures. Unfortunately, the quality of sculpture has been reduced to zero; they are things that look like objects of power. Meaningless. Who is Atatürk, what is he? When you ask why this is Atatürk, you can't find an answer. Both Atatürk's image and the sculpture's image are being damaged. These sculptures should have gained artistic expression. If you put something in a park or a square, it will stand there for decades, hundreds of years, and millions of people will see it; that culture will come from there. If you put a meaningless man with his hands in his pockets, looking here and there, as a sculpture, you are damaging the image of the sculpture. We lost from the start. We need to put up sculptures that carry artistic meaning so that there is some sympathy for sculpture, some culture. There's nothing like that in Turkey.
We go crazy, we strive. Just when we're about to do something, it gets destroyed or doesn't open. We really put up a big fight. This happens everywhere. It happens in Germany, it happens in Turkey. The dominant culture, the prevailing understanding, will stop you if you oppose it. What did I do in Germany, for example? I made the "Unknown Soldier Deserter" monument. First of all, the word itself is bad. You take that sacredness, the story of the unknown soldier, and give it to someone who deserted from the army. But I think it's related to who they deserted from, why, and from which war. In Germany, we made that deserter monument in memory of the soldiers who deserted Hitler's army. And the government at the time didn't want it. Why? Because they said it was an insult to the German army. A huge debate started. The debate lasted 10-15 years in Germany. It was very good. A statue was capable of so much. In the end, even today, deserters who were not given certain prohibited duties got those duties and rights back. That statue was the cause.
You've similarly sparked many debates. In Turkey, the Monument to Humanity was also highly controversial; unfortunately, they eventually demolished the statue.
Yes, of course. That was debated for 7-8 years. And for the first time, they gave me the opportunity to talk about sculpture on television. I kept talking about sculpture, which was great. That's why we became popular. Of course, popularity doesn't benefit my art. It can both make things easier and harder. No AKP municipality would give me work. Even CHP municipalities are afraid when they hear the name Mehmet Aksoy. The benefit is this: For example, you go to a restaurant, the waiter recognizes you, and people come up and say, "Brother, we love you very much."
I believe you also have a statue in Cuba.
Yes, yes. There's a statue of Nazım Hikmet. Actually, I wanted to make another statue in Cuba. I want to make a statue of José Marti. I've actually started it, and I'm almost finished, but it needs to be given to someone with the initiative. I love José Marti very much. He is a very committed artist and uses his art so beautifully, his poetry. For the Cuban revolution… He has a very beautiful poetic language. I can compare him to Nazım Hikmet.
What would your final words be?
I think young artists are important. That's why I want to address them. They should return to art, they shouldn't be captivated by the culture of imperialism. Dominant powers always fear art, that's why they try to hinder it and try to force art that reflects their own ideas. But artists are not submissive; they always continue to create art within a democratic understanding of art. I see myself that way. I hope that young people will also engage with art in opposition to the dominant view.
Source: https://haber.sol.org.tr/yazarlar/fide-lale-durak/samanlar-ve-mitler-sergisi-uzerine-mehmet-aksoy-ile-soylesi-406728